Alexi Lalas' State of the Union Podcast Recorded in the MAC Podcast Studio

Hear from MAC Hermann Trophy Banquet Co-Chairman Greg Beekman about the history of the MAC Hermann Trophy.

Then, for the first time, the 2023 MAC Hermann Trophy finalists stopped by the Club’s podcast studio ahead of the ceremony on Friday, Jan. 5. There, Alexi Lalas recorded an episode of his podcast, State of the Union. He interviewed each finalist, Florida State head coach Brian Pensky, Clemson head coach Mike Noonan, St. Louis CITY SC head coach Bradley Carnell, Bill McDermott, and Mike Sorber.
Listen to Alexi's full podcast at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg--okCOEUs

Missouri Athletic Club Connections highlights the foremost private club in St. Louis known for attracting exceptional people and enriching lives for generations.

Transcript

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Hi, and welcome to Missouri Athletic Club Connections, a podcast highlighting Missouri's only premier athletic club. The MAC is recognized as the foremost private club in Saint Louis. Known for attracting exceptional people and enriching lives for generations. I'm MAC Communications Strategist Monica Ryan. And today we're talking about the MAC Herrman Trophy. The 2023 winners were announced at the banquet on Friday, January 5th, 2024, and ahead of the banquet, we had U.S. Men's National Team legend and current FOX broadcaster Alexi Lalas record his State of the Union podcast right here in the MAC studio where he interviewed the finalists, City SC head coach Bradley Carnell, Bill McDermott Mr. Soccer himself and his former teammate and native St. Louisan Mike Sorber. It was very cool to be in the room for that. But before we turn it over to Alexi. With me today is past Governor and MAC Hermann Trophy Chairman Greg Beekman. Hi, Monica. Hi. Thanks so much for joining us today. My pleasure. Of course. So first off, what is the MAC Hermann Trophy? And can you tell us a little about the history of the award? The MAC Hermann Trophy is awarded to the top men's and women's college soccer player each year. The history of the event. So a man named Bob Hermann, who was a pioneer in U.S. soccer. He, among other things, started the National American Soccer League back in the sixties. He decided, I think, in 1966 to establish this award, to recognize at the time the men's college soccer Player of the year. And then, you know, when the women's program started emerging, they were added to to the award. So the awards being given out for a very long time. Sometime in the eighties, the MAC actually established its own separate award. So for, you know, about 15, 20 years, there were two awards for the top players in college soccer. And in the early 2000s, with the help of the United Soccer Coaches, the college soccer coaches are awards merged. And we've been working with the Hermann family ever since. So that there's one premier award for for college soccer. Very cool. So how did you get involved with the banquet and what does your role as chairman entail? So coincidentally, when I was elected to the board in 2012, our our predecessor and I say our so I am co-chair, I want to make make it very clear I am co-chair with my wife Annie, who does actually a lot more work than I do on the on the banquet. She's deals with all the high school teams and, you know, is great with the players. So definitely want to recognize that she is more than an equal partner in this in this thing. But our predecessor, Steve Krauss, who was the chairman of the Hermann Banquet for 18 years prior to us getting involved, was ready to to transition for for somebody else to take over. So the president of the club at the time just knew that my wife and I were, you know, had an interest in soccer and some. My wife is a soccer coach, so but he asked us if we'd be interested in getting involved and we said yes. And yeah, 11 years later, we're we're still going strong. What was it like to have Alexi back at the club this year? Can you tell us a little bit about his history with the award? Sure. Alexi was a winner in 1991. He was a defender at Rutgers and then went on to a very prominent role on the men's national team, was very recognizable, you know, huge shock of red hair and goatee and was very kind of a star on the 1994 World Cup team and in MLS. So, you know, he's he's as a past winner, just very invested in the award, very invested in college soccer. And having him back was was amazing. I mean, he is the nicest person. First of all, we we've we've two years in a row. We've picked him up from the airport. We've, you know, kind of been his liaison to the to the club and just could not be, you know, more kind and patient with with, you know, anyone who wants to talk, take a picture, get an autograph and enthusiastic about the event and the and the players. So we were thrilled to have him back this year as kind of to do the interviews to to be involved. This time in in the program, interviewing the winners just just really adds another, you know, level of excitement to the to the to the evening. Yeah. Just to like point out how nice he is. He was seen at our photo booth ahead and he was taking a photo with Steve Albart's daughter's team. It was. Yeah, Yeah. The J.B. Marine girls. Right. And he was just having a blast and he was like, Girls, let's do a silly one. It was. It was awesome. Yeah. Now that's. That captures it perfectly. Like, you know, just, just every, both last year and this year just is I can't say enough great things about his involvement and his presence here. Great. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Chairman Beekman. And thank you for all the work you do on the MAC Hermann Trophy. You're welcome. It was a great time. It made for a great night. Definitely. And with that, we'll turn it over to Alexi Lalas with his State of the Union podcast. Onyi Echegini. How are you? I'm good. We came in from the airport last night together. It was a wonderful, cramped ride. We had a good time. But last night in the car, correct me if I'm wrong, I think that there were three different names that were used for you last night. So what? Tell tell the world once and for all what we should call you Onyi or Joe. Onyi or Joe. But. But then when it comes to some interviews that I've seen, especially when it comes to Nigeria, stuff like that, there's Jennifer going on. So where did that Jennifer come from? Are you Jenny from somewhere? What's going on here? So my full name is Jennifer Onyinyechi Echegini and Nigeria they go by their first name, so they call me Jennifer. People know that. So as a joke that I, Jennifer, Jenny or people know me as Onyi I've introduced myself as Joe. So preferably Onyi or Joe. But the Jennifer is mostly like a joke part for my friends. But with Nigeria it's serious. Oh my goodness. All right. Well, listen, we'll we'll go with Onyi going forward, it doesn’t matter what we call you. You're a great soccer player, a wonderful person. Like I said, I really had a fun, you know, fun time meeting last night and coming in. This is going to be a fun night for you. Congratulations on your nomination for the MAC Hermann Award. You are joining some incredible company in terms of the nomination and good luck to you tonight. Thank you. Okay. So it's been a hell of a year, a wonderful year for you when you look at winning a national championship now, being up for the MAC Hermann Award and obviously the the World Cup, is this something that as a as a young girl, you you envisioned growing up, you were born in the Netherlands and grew up in in London. Is this something that you envisioned for yourself growing up? I mean, to to a certain extent, I've always wanted to be a professional football player Since the age of four, I started playing and like I said, I had those dreams and aspirations. But it wasn't until maybe last year that that reality kind of came true. When I, I was incorporated into the national team and I started going to camps with them and I transferred to Florida State and then football became more serious and I got better. And then I kind of one day sat down and said to myself, like, I kind of make a job out of out of this for myself. So, yeah, it wasn't until recently, as much as I've been playing for the past 18 years, it wasn't until maybe last year or so that I, I really thought that this is something serious for me. We've talked a lot on this podcast about what American college soccer is and what it isn't. And that pathway, you know, from the men's side, it started to dry up a little bit in terms of that traditional pathway, although it's interesting that on the men's side, there's a lot of players from Europe and elsewhere around the world that are actually using it as either a kind of a back door to get back into the game. And then obviously the educational part of it, which is incredibly valuable to a lot. Did you see your pathway leading through the American university system or is that just something that came about? So how did that pathway ultimately happen now? It was kind of something that came about. I was before that I was at Arsenal on the under 21s and it was actually March 2019. My teammates were kind of talking about going to the U.S., you know, just like every other teenager. I heard my friends doing something and I wanted to do it as well. So I was like, okay, I want to do this too. So that whole that that night I went home and I started researching and then I saw all this stuff about NCAA and these conferences have no idea what any of this is, but I'm like, I still want to do this. I want to go to America. So I committed to it. I wrote down like a draft. I got highlight videos and I started emailing schools and I'm seeing schools like UCLA, like from a movie. So I'm like, I want to go to UCLA. I want to be like, like from those from those movies. Like, I think it's so cool. But no, like my my friends kind of encouraged me to go in. And as much as it was kind of like, what experience? Like, the reality was I was at Arsenal, which is a very, very tough place to be. And the next step after the 21s was to go to the first team. And I had already been at the 21s for the past two years, and nobody really stays for longer than three years. So the next step is playing professionally or going somewhere else or, you know, on whatever if you have other desires. But I decided to go to the U.S. I, as I did research and I asked around I. It was a really good pathway to to go to. I mean first of all, like the money that goes into athletics here back in the day in the UK, we didn't have that. I didn't have a weight room, I didn't have those facilities to support me. And so it was an upgrade then? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, like a lot of places, there is it still isn't that support for women's sports and women's soccer in general. So just to have that support around me, I knew it would make me better and I wanted to go over to here to the U.S. to get better. That was the goal. Did you had you ever been to Mississippi? Yes. You had No, no, no, no. You had never been. No, I hadn’t been to Mississippi. It wasn't really my my favorite place to go. Like, I was thinking like a California or like, you know, you kind of have those, like, American dreams. There's no American dreams involving Mississippi. Sadly, no. Great place. I had a good time. You know, I was thinking about the UCLA because that's that's what I saw in the movies. And no, and then Mississippi State happened and I was very grateful. And I had three amazing years there with amazing people, amazing, amazing coaches and. Yeah. Had you ever been to Florida? No, I hadn't been anywhere in the U.S. It was my first time going and I remember my dad going with me, drop me off. And as he left, I was holding in some concerned crowds like, Don't leave me, I'm coming to, I don't want to stay. But, you know, it's hard leaving one country to the other, even by yourself and starting school, college. And I already met my coach and he kind of scared me. He's talking about beep test on Monday. I'm like, sure. It's like, you need to pass. Yeah, I got it. So, like, you know, as a freshman coming in, like, that type of stuff scares you. So, like, at the beginning it was kind of hard for me, but, you know, it takes time. So I adjusted and I managed to fit in the move to Florida State. Obviously, it resulted in the national championship and, you know, the incredible individual honors that you have been given. What what what made you say, I need to do this and I need to do this now? So at Mississippi State the conference is the SEC. It’s a different type of soccer growing up in England, very focused on just technical play. And I found the SEC was a bit more based on athleticism. Although I was there for three years, I just didn't think I fit in very well. I wanted a new challenge. I wanted to try something new. Having already moved from England to the U.S., I, I knew in my heart and I, I know when it's time for me to move on and try something new. I had been feeling that for a while. It was a scary decision. Transferring is not easy, at all. But I one day told my coach like I need to go somewhere else and well, it worked out right. So you're a strong woman. Okay, so speaking of new challenges, you got in the car last night and you were coming all the way from Torino, all the way from Turin over there where you just signed for Juventus. You have an Italian adventure now ahead of you. How is your Italian and how are you? Well, I mean, you just got there, so I'll give you a little bit of time, but I'm sure you're excited about the possibilities going forward, living in living in Italy and playing over in Italy. No, absolutely. I mean, I've been there since December 26. It's been scary. You know, change isn't easy. Like, I reiterated before. But yeah, I'm I'm having a good time learning, planning the people, learning the environment. It's a new country and different culture and exciting football Juventus is one of the best teams in Italy. They play Champions League every year and just like transferring from colleges to colleges, this is another adventure in my career that I wanted as a challenge. I want to know another step in the staircase that's going to make me better. And I just want to reach as high as I possibly can go. And a place like Juventus, this is exactly the place that I think that can help me reach that place. Well, Onyi Echegini, congratulations. I know that it wasn't necessarily the American dream that you envisioned when you started, but it is certainly turned out to be an incredible American adventure and dream that you have lived and it's made you the person that you are on and off the soccer field. And I wish you all the luck going forward. And in Italia and and everywhere else, including the international game that I'm sure you're going to be involved with going forward. So thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Joining me, Brian Pensky, the Florida State coach, national champion, just an all around good guy and a cultivator of some incredible talent and wins. You've been at Maryland, you've been at Tennessee, and now you're at Florida State. Congratulations. First off, on the national championship. I always ask coaches this because you took over this program and look, it was a juggernaut of a program and you never want to be the person that takes over for the really, really good person. You want to be that next person, except you have bucked the trend and you came in and have made this program not just live up, but in many ways, I think even better. What was your mindset when you came in a few years ago to this already very good team to make it better? Yeah. I mean, I walked in to the reigning national champs and the reigning ACC champs and they were they were broken hearted. They were broken up. Right. Mark Krikorian had just walked out the door and shockingly and they they were devastated. And so basically I walked in. This was not a typical kind of coaching change. This was a. All right, who's this schmo walking through the door? Right. And so I just kind of tried to endear myself to them and understand what they were going through. And I said, look, I'm walking into your team. This is your team. You're national champions. This is far more your team than it is mine. And let's try to do this together and I want to learn from you. Hopefully you can learn from me. We're not going to change things just to change things, right? That would be ignorant and naive and arrogant of me and let's see what we can do. And that was kind of the the, you know, the method. And they they over time embraced me and we kept on keeping on. Give me one change, though, that you did. Oh, good question. Honestly, it was it was in the way we defended was was probably the biggest thing they had defended in a certain way and pressed in a certain way. And we had to change it because we didn't have the same depth in the midfield. And so I brought the leaders in and the older players and I said, This is why I think we need to tweak this. Do you understand why? And you guys trust in it and you believe in it? And they said, Yeah, it makes total sense. And I think that was a big deal for most coaches. Their players are like their babies and they don't want to say they have favorite ones or anything. But obviously we're here at the Missouri Athletic Club to celebrate the the MAC Hermann Trophy winner. One of your players Onyi Echegini is nominated for that. But what has made her so good other than putting the ball in the back of the net? Yeah, you know, you talk about babies and favorites and all that. What's interesting is we just talk about the transition in that fall of 22 transition, I brought in one player and it was her. She was at Mississippi State for three years. She went into the transfer portal when I was still at Tennessee and I was trying to get her to Tennessee. But there was an SEC rule that said you couldn't transfer because it was after a certain deadline. And then about four weeks later, I took this job and I said, okay, we're not going to go to Tennessee together. We're going to we're going to go to Florida State. And 27 goals later. And here we are, potential Hermann Trophy winner. She she is. I think that's her greatest asset. You know, she she played mostly as a left winger for us first half of this year. She played as a as a midfielder for Nigeria. She played as a midfielder. She likes to play in the midfield. And I kept telling her, I said, look, your greatest asset as a player is scoring goals and that's the hardest thing to do in this game, right? And so if we can get you closer to goal, you're just going to score in in a variety of ways. She can score with her head, she can score off the dribble, she can score from distance, she can score with both feet. And we made that first half of the season. She was playing in midfield, second half, we we're going to Notre Dame game. And I said, Look, I think we need you up top tonight. Can you give it a shot? And she scored two goals against Notre Dame. And then we laughed afterwards and we said, we're not changing. Put her closer to goal. So there you go. Let's let's broaden it out a bit because, you know, one of the things that I'm going to be talking about to a lot of people here is what college soccer, I guess, has been what it is and where it's going. And while the men's and women's game are a little bit different, there are some similarities and some parallel parallels that can make that, let's be honest, can provide some challenges going forward for coaches and players. The traditional pathways that men and women have gone through in the past are starting well from the men's side have all, but dried up to a certain extent. And the women's side, it's it's starting to happen and you're seeing them coming out earlier some of them that are bypassing the the college the college pathway if you had to I guess sell players on why the college pathway still is relevant, not just from a competitive standpoint, but even from a developmental standpoint. We talk so much about the the 90 minutes and sometimes we forget about the other 22 and a half hours that I do think that you and coaches like yourselves have a responsibility for. So what is your what is your pitch to them? Yeah, and we joked before we came on air, right, that we could go on for hours. And here I am, I'm sitting in this chair right now. But you mentioned I was at Maryland before I took over the women's program. 2002 through 2004, I was with Sash on the men's side and right around the turn of the century was when this started happening on the men's side. And so we had players that would go into U-20 camps and things like that, and they'd come back and they say, Well, the U-20, Coach told us we should leave college now and go pro, right? And it was back in the days when they called Project 40 back then, right when MLS started. And so now here we are and that was Project 2010. Remember those days, right? The Nike investment and all those things and Project 2010 was we're going to win the 2010 World Cup. That was the goal, right? Well, here we are, right here we are. We didn't make the 2018 World Cup, right? And so the decision in the push to miss college 20 plus years ago, has it really advanced us on the men's side. You look at the players right now that are playing on the national team for the men, how many of them are college players? How many of them are foreign born players and how many of them are these 16, 17, 18 year old kids that have just, you know, skipped college right now? We'd have to break that down. Now, here we are, 20 years later, and it's starting to happen on the women's side. And I sit in this place of having been there 20 years ago, and there are certain players that are no brainers. Right. You can see why Trinity Rodman did it. You can see why Mal Pugh did it. But then there are real tweeners, right? And what's what's hard about it is at the end of the day, they're all humans, right? They're human beings and they're at different places in their lives and in their growing up ness, Right, so to speak. And are they ready for how hard it is? You know how hard it is, right? It's it's difficult to be a professional player. Not that I know, Right. But I've seen it and I've heard it and I've had plenty of players, men and women calling me crying because all of a sudden grass isn't always greener. Grass isn’t always greener. The coach isn't talking to me. The coach isn't giving me feedback, Coach isn't, Well the coach is fighting for his or her own livelihood. And that's what everybody is doing. And it and it's hard. And so you have a period of development and growth. And you look one year ago I was here fortunately with Jenna Nighswonger, right. Four year college player, and she called me last March in her first month of camp with with Gotham. They were playing our left wing. She was a ten at Florida State for four years. They're playing at left wing. She wanted to be a ten. Then all of a sudden, 10 minutes into her first game, they put her left back. She never played in the back in her life. Fast forward eight months. She's the NWSL Rookie of the year as a left back right. So you never know. And it all worked out for her. But she was 22 and a little bit older, but she still had some tears in pre-season last year because it was hard right? And so bottom line is, are they really ready to deal with the tough days? Is there somebody within the infrastructure of the club or some people within the infrastructure of the club to take care of these kids, put their arm around them when life is hard because life is going to be hard and you want them to succeed and you want them to be great in the best way that we're all great is when we feel supported and we're comfortable and we're confident in our own skin. And that's really hard. Last question and it might be unfair, but prognosticate. Let's look into the crystal ball, the MAC award, if you will, here. And what does what does the landscape look like from a collegiate perspective? And like you said, you have an experience, both the men's and the women's side. So both or collectively, if you want to talk about it, what does it look like? Because you've talked about selling the existing structure, but is there anything that can be done to tweak? And we know it's a behemoth when it comes to the NCAA, but is there anything that can be done to make it more attractive or to reattract players, I guess, going forward. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard, you know, Now you really see why we are and I think probably are women's coaches, right, are now starting to see why. Sasha, since 2010, 2012, whatever it was, trying to push the the full year model, right. Because that's a big deal. Can we mirror the rest of the world? Right. So can we do that? That's an uphill climb with the NCAA. I've always known that was going to be an uphill climb. Right. And they got bigger problems right now with sports football, which we know 100%, 100%. But honestly, one partial green light. You look at Caitlin Clark at Iowa basketball, Right. And you look at some of these other athletes, you look at football players who actually they can't go to the NFL until they're three years into their college career because it's a physical maturation thing. But these people are earning money. Right. And obviously, the pay scale on the women's side is different than it is on the men's side. But the we heard it the other day, I think was yesterday or two days ago. The NWSL pay scale just rose like 25, 30%, something like that. So if the money gets better, then that's more attractive to certain players of course. Right. But players can now get make some money in NIL. Right. And so that could arguably keep some players tied to the college game. I can still make a dent two or three years don't have to stay for all four, two or three years into my academic, you know degree make a little bit of money while I'm at it grow up a little bit more. And then for me it still just comes back to people, right? You can be in a great professional environment with great coaching and great loving human beings who are going to take care of them that can exist in the pro world and it can exist in the college world. You just you don't know, You don't know. You get to choose. Oftentimes you get to choose that in the college world, and then you don't so much in the pro world. Alright, Pensky head coach of Florida State, congratulations again national champion. But more so the way that you you think about the game on and off the field men's and women's because of your experience from your lips to I guess the NCAA’s ears and and beyond. Hopefully we'll see you back again next year. As Janet Jackson said, though, what have you done for me lately? So, amen, you got to go, amen. Go back to work for next year. That is right. All right. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. Okay. Welcome in. Ousmane Sylla out of Clemson, 24 years old, senior forward and out of Dakar, Senegal. It should be said too. Congratulations, first off on your nomination for the MAC Hermann Award here. Welcome. You ever been to Saint Louis? Oh, no. This is my first time. Come on over. Close to the mikes. We get all of your full glory. This is your first time in Saint Louis? Yes. Did you go on the stadium tour this morning over there at Saint Louis City? Yes, I did. It's very beautiful. It's nice, huh? Yeah. Amazing place to play, right? And attractive. Nice place for you to score some goals against. Yeah, well, we'll see. We'll see. Okay, listen, also, congratulations on this year's. Not just the individual awards and honors that you're getting, but also from a team perspective. Clemson once again champions. You just keep racking up the wins, keep racking up the national championships, 13 goals, ten assists, five game winning goals for the for the for the Tigers there and your second national championship in three years. This is incredible. How did you find your way to Clemson University Give me because we're talking a lot today about the pathways and all the different pathways that lead people to their success and lead people to their next destination and the adventures really that they are. How did you find yourself from Senegal to the United States to the Monteverde Academy in Orlando there, and then ultimately to Clemson? So when I was when I was in Senegal. So we have academy, the big academy swimming spot for charity. It's by anybody's I've go and in 2017 I just came to Montverde Academy, which is like we have a very good partnership between Montverde Academy and my academy, which is Galaxy back home. And then I spent two years coming to US without knowing any English. It was very, you know, different feeling, very tough. Wait so hold on. hold on. They come to you and they say, Hey, listen, the Montverde Academy would love to have you come over to Orlando. Right? You don't speak any English? Yes. Had you ever been to the United States? Never. Never been to the United States. Had you ever been to Florida? Obviously never been to Florida. You've never been to Orlando? No. And they said would this be something Ousmane that you would want to do? And you said, yes, of course, that's exactly what you did. And you got on a plane and you went to Orlando. Yes. And you started your new school and your academy right there. Right. What was what was the biggest change and I guess the biggest challenge either on the soccer field or off the soccer field, maybe on the soccer field, it was fine. But off the soccer field, I'm sure that there were a lot of challenges, not the least of which, like you mentioned, is speaking English. Yes. So off the off the pitch like I think school wise because like and I'm not ashamed to say it because I never like I'm not saying I'm I never like to study but was not my own my main focus mean you're a you're a kid that doesn't like to study. That is crazy. I've never heard of anything. No, it's not. It's not like that. But it just like I was kind of focusing more on soccer because grew up before my dad was a soccer player. Okay? So I just wanted to be proud, you know, I just want to be a soccer player at the time. So now you had to study. Exactly. Yeah. And the English part of it, because you speak very good English right now. So how did that come about? Did you how did you go about learning it other than just being in it constantly, every single day? Yeah. You know, Yeah. When I came here, yeah, I didn't know a lot of English. So like television and also like, good people. Teammate helping me. What, what shows did you watch? So I watch a lot of cartoons and then I put in like The Lion King. Okay, like the Happy Feet, something like that. That's how you learned English. The Lion King and Happy Feet. Yeah, something like that. Wonderful. Okay, so you get you you're doing very well. You're learning English, you're studying, and you're obviously doing well on the soccer field. How did Clemson come onto your radar? Yeah, Clemson been following me like when I was in freshman in high school. And also, like, I have a lot of friend who used to play in Clemson very they they have a lot of success there and I didn't want to go cause it was different story. It was like a different story. So I didn't want to go college. I wanted to go straight pro. And then after COVID happened and then like Clemson was there and there was a lot of school there. But I choose Clemson easily because of good people. When you talk about Clemson is like always good. What were the other schools like? Wake Forest was there like Oregon State, SMU, North Carolina, and you said, no, no deal. I'm going to Clemson, right? Yeah, that would be any place that you were going. Exactly. Now, we've talked a lot, like I said, about pathways and the unique pathways that people take. You said there was a point where you maybe thought, No, I'm just going to go straight, try to go straight to the professional ranks. But obviously you, because of COVID or any number of reasons you didn't do that. Do you regret not going the professional route immediately at the age of 17, 18 years old, Or do you think that you became not just a better soccer player, but also maybe a better person going forward in terms of the skills that you got at Clemson? I never regret it. Okay. So I choose Clemson without visiting Clemson, so it was the right fit for me. And also, like, I just graduated like a few days ago, so I'm very thankful. It is like something that that I can never lose. Like having your degree is something very special that I never thought I was going to have it. So I'm thankful. So. So you're already graduated? Yeah. You walked. You did everything. You're all. You're all good. I did it. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I. I did it when I was 44 years old. I, I came as a freshman to Rutgers University in the fall of 1988, and I graduated in the spring of 2014. So I was on an extended plan. But you, my friend, you did not mess around. What did you get your degree in? Sociology. Okay. If. If I said today to Ousmane, you can't play soccer anymore. What do you think you would do? Yeah, I'm going to, uh. I'm going to walk. I'm going to use my degree to find a job. Doing what? What do you want to do? Yeah, I want to involve on soccer. But if, like, there is no way I want to be a coach, maybe, like, when I'm retired, so I want to involved in soccer. Okay, well, hopefully you stay healthy and you continue to do great things, and you don’t have to worry about that for for for a long time. Okay. So let's let's let's let's look a little bit into the future here as we end this up. You got drafted by the Houston Dynamo. All right. Is that something that you are looking forward to and that you want to do? Uh, yes. Yes, it is. What else do you see? If you looked into the crystal ball of Ousmane in the future, where do you see yourself in two, two years, five years, ten years? Uh, being able to play in a high level, like be a very important player like on and off the field. If I could just say right now, I would put you anywhere in the world for any team in the world, at any league, in the world, any country. Where would you want to play? I want to play in England. Where though? What team? Two team like Man City or Brighton or Brighton. Yeah. Wow. Man City or Brighton. Yeah. All right, my man. Anything could happen. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. That's. That is. That is awesome. Well, listen, you have done incredible things on the field that everybody has seen, and that's why you are nominated for the MAC Hermann Trophy. And more importantly, you've done the work off the field and whether it's getting your degree. So congratulations on that. And by the way, learning English and doing all the different things that is. And that is to me, as impressive and as incredible and as praiseworthy as anything that you have done from a soccer perspective. But have a wonderful night tonight. Again, congratulations on being nominated and good luck going forward both on and off the field, my friend. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Welcome. Mike Noonan, the men's coach for Clemson. National champions yet again. Congratulations. It's good to see you here in St. Louis. And congratulations on all your success from a team perspective and individual perspective. We've talked a whole lot to everybody here about about pathways. And I'm so interested in your perspective because college soccer, as we know, when when I was coming up, it was a very different type of pathway. And that has, let's be honest, pretty much dried up in terms of that traditional way, which was the only way that you kind of rose up and got better and got different opportunities. And now with the elite pathway and the bypassing of college, college soccer is changing. I maintain that it is still incredibly valuable, has an incredible worth, even beyond the actual kicking of the ball. Am I just being Pollyanna or do you believe that there is a value going forward to young players in terms of their development, not just as soccer players, but as, you know, future leaders of the world? I guess it would be, Yeah. Yeah. There's no doubt. Alexi, there's hardware when it comes to soccer and there's software, right? It's just like a computer. And the college pathway is the best place to develop the software that you need to use the hardware to maximize the hardware When you go up in levels, life style, time management, all the skill, skill sets that you learn when you're in college, you know, whether you're an athlete or not. When you're an athlete, it's accentuated, you know, much greater because there are more demands on you from a soccer perspective. You know, you look at the college game now and you go, I mean, we get a lot of international players from all over and they walk into our facilities and the resources that we have in terms of strength, conditioning, sports psychology, dieticians, sports media. Right. And they're exposed to it all. And at the same point, our facilities are fantastic. You know, I won't blow my own horn, but I'll blow my colleague's horn. And and the coaching in college is excellent. So I think that there's definitely huge value in it. And I think that, you know, everybody's going to find their own. I mean, pathway is is the buzz word, right? Right. Everyone's Going to find their own pathway. And college is certainly playing a relevant, not irrelevant part in that. But I mean, you would admit that there are new and different challenges that you and your colleagues are facing now as college coaches in terms of especially when it comes to the elite talent and the recruiting process and, you know, getting them getting them to look at that in the way that you look at it. So what are some of the things I know this is a probably an unfair question to ask you, but what are some of the things that actually can be done to just manipulate and or change or I guess, abandon things that exist in college soccer to make it more appealing to make it more palatable and maybe to, I guess, go back to a time where it is a more appealing type of pathway. Well, I think you've heard probably about the 21st century model. Right. And I think that's maybe what you're alluding to. And I've been very, very involved with some of my colleagues and trying to promote that. And we were pretty. What’s the CliffNotes version for people that are watching? So CliffNotes is basically it goes over two semesters, right? So you'd play right now we play too many games in too short a period of time. A player gets injured, pulls a hamstring he misses a third to half of the season. Right. So so what it would do is it would you play half your games in the fall So you play ten, 11 games in the fall and then you play ten, 11 games in the championship in the spring. So what does that it gets us out of the football country of bowl games in December. It gets us out of poor weather. It gets us into good weather for our championships, which we want to, you know, be a model for everybody to watch it. It eliminates the match congestion that is is crazy in college soccer. And college soccer has not changed their calendar since the fifties. So we haven't we haven't evolved the way other sports have evolved or been allowed to evolve in the NCAA. Unfortunately, there is something called COVID and we had the momentum for the model and I believe the votes for the model to pass it. And then COVID hit it was tabled. The NCAA has now gone through huge restructuring, but in the very near future, I think you'll see it come to the table again. And that will help tremendously because. But before COVID, you think it had a chance? Oh, yeah. No, no question. We we are you know, the major conferences who had the most amount of votes were in line to vote it in. You mentioned the the international influence that whether it's Clemson or anybody else has in terms of the recruiting out there. You know, I think back to the days when I was playing college soccer and there was always international influence. Maybe it was much more specific, specific colleges or universities as opposed to kind of spread out right now. Has that been a function of the changing pathways and the changing dynamic of college, or is this this is just something where it's been easier to do? Yeah, I think people kind of missed the boat on that. The reason why we're 35 to 40% international Division one right now is because we're the only place in the world where you can get your education and still play at a very high level. And people are finding from all over the world that soccer doesn't have to be a dead end when you're 17 or 18 years of age. And so you're seeing the international players who are maybe more savvy, Right? More mature. Right. Because the cultures that they come from, they're relied on to be adults at a younger age. And so I think now what you're seeing is you're seeing that expansion and like I said, the international guys we've had in our team, Manchester City, Liverpool, Seville, you know, all over Sweden, right, big clubs, right. Their youth players are coming in and they're looking at what we have here and they're going back home and they're telling people and they're saying this is something that's real and you get your education at the same time. Yeah, they get the you know, they get the best of both worlds and even almost a back door for someone like you said that maybe need more time to develop or, you know, have taken their traditional pathway in their country and culture and it hasn't worked out. And they sometimes even find a a back door to come back around to it. Right now, there's no question. And the game continues to evolve in this country, Right? The MLS is getting better and better, right? The USL is getting better and better. The Canadian Premier League is now an option for players in college to go up and play. So I think that is going to continue to evolve. But college soccer will always have its place, will always have its place in that developmental path. At Clemson, we've had 29 MLS draft picks over the last five or six years. So somewhere somehow, you know, the MLS is still looking to the college game when it comes to someone like Ousmane Sylla, who is up for this award. Obviously you must take great pride in the fact that one of your players and I know they're all your babies and all that stuff, but tell us a little bit about what makes him so good. I it's Ousmane, the person, not Ousmane the player. He's magnificent to be around. He plays with a smile on his face. He’s the player that makes everybody, you know, it's coaching cliche, but he makes everybody better in in inside the lines and outside the lines. A lot of people don't know Ousmane, you know, he speaks two or three different languages. He was did not have the skill set maybe to start college and needed some help. But his last semester as a 4.0 student in sociology and graduated in December. Yeah, the kid is amazing and he's very honored. We're very honored to have him here, but he's also very deserving. Last question Look into your crystal ball for a future of college soccer and some of the things that you see, notwithstanding what happened with COVID and everything like that. But what does it look like five, ten, 20 years from now? Yeah, I think you're going to see the same same type of progression. I think that you're going to there's always going to be places and there are always going to be the population to fill college soccer teams, right? I mean, look, in this country, in the expansion of that, I think that the game will continue to become more sophisticated at the college level, as it has throughout every level here, the national team, all the way down through the the professional leagues and the coaching will continue. The pedagogy of coaching in this country on both sides, men and women. And when I talk about college soccer, I represent both sides of it. I'm not just talking about the men's game. I mean, the women's game continues to evolve and develop and and we're excited to partner with our women's coach, Eddie Radwanski, who went to the College Cup this year. And, you know, it's just fun watching the growth of the game in particularly in college, because that doesn't change they’re 18 to 22, 23 years old. The young people learning how to be grown, people and you know, the value of that is irreplaceable. Well, and to your point, it's it's an existing infrastructure right now. And we've almost thrown the baby out with the bathwater in certain aspects of it. And so if we could find a way to, I guess, harness it or reharness it to our advantage, then the sky is the limit. And as you mentioned, and it doesn't get said enough, the quality of coaching, not just one city with here, but you know, that goes list goes on and on in both the men's and women's side. I don't think that they get enough credit for what they are doing in producing not just better soccer players, but like I said, you know, the future leaders of our country and our world out there, and at times doing it with one hand or I guess it's soccer. So one foot tied behind it, behind their back. So thank you for the work that you are doing, not just producing great soccer teams and great soccer players, but also great men and women going forward. Well, thank you, Alexi. And I remember being in South Florida when you played in the College Cup then. Do you really? I do. My goodness. Rutgers and I think UCLA. Brad Friedel. Brad Friedel. Yup. Hanging on, hanging on to the crossbar. Brad Friedel and Mike Lapper and Chris Henderson and Cobi Jones and all of those all those guys at NC State had Dario Brose there and Henry Gutierrez. So. Oh my goodness. And then who was it? It was Pat Weir, not Pat Weir, it was David Weir who played for Evansville. Yeah, Evansville, right? Yeah. So there you go. We went all the way back to when you were in college. It's amazing. It's amazing. Well, you know, it seems like yesterday, but as the saying goes, you come a long way, baby. And we have both on and off the field. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful time at the banquet tonight. Thank you, Alexi. Welcome. Eleanor Dale University Nebraska, a 21 year old senior forward out of Billingham, England, Big Ten forward of the year and led the nation with 28 goals and eight game winning goals. Again, the theme talking to everybody here at the MAC Hermann Award is pathways. So first off, congratulations on your nomination for the MAC Hermann Trophy. How do you get to be sitting here in this room with me here in St. Louis up for this award from England? What is the pathway that you took? Was it a pathway that you planned out? Was it just serendipity? How do you find yourself becoming a Nebraska Cornhusker and then being here sitting with me today? Well, I always wanted to come to the U.S. like I think the system they have over here with the education and you can play football alongside it is is great. So I knew I always wanted to come here and I had the pleasure of meeting my coach quite early on in my recruiting process. I think I definitely decided I want to come to America maybe like a year before I actually came. And he was up in Scotland at the time and then drove down to watch one of my games. And then ever since then, you know, he just told me all about the university, what they offer and. I was like, great, Like I want to visit. And then I visited and I was like, But did he contact you or did you contact him? Or like, he's just driving around and I wanted to come. Well, how does it work? So I actually went through an agency. I had a agent who got in contact with my coach, and then from there he, you know, came and saw me. And then yeah, so we were talking we were talking earlier with Onyi and, you know, she was talking about at different time. So, you know, the the vision and the dream that you have and the opportunity and the way that you look at the U.S., you said that this was something that you wanted to do. What was your idealistic version of that? Is it, you know, a a a Hollywood type of thing or a New York City type of thing or what did you what did you envision? I mean, I envisioned that when I wasn't in classes, I'd be out on the beach somewhere. But definitely didn't get that in Nebraska. Honestly, I'd never even heard of Nebraska before The coach, like, reached out to me. Yeah, I thought I would go to one of these, like, bigger states, whatever. But yeah, I ended up in good old Nebraska. So did you when you flew there, was it the first time that you ever flew in to Omaha? And that was. That was it. Welcome. Nebraska and off we go. Yeah. So I flew into Omaha and it was -20 degrees Celsius. The snow was so deep it was just like so what have I gotten myself in? Yeah, it was so cold. It was freezing. I remember my coach ringing me and he was like, Make sure you bring a coat. I was like, Oh, like, yeah, I've got a coat. I’ll be fine, but no. I should have brought like three coats. It was so cold. What, what appealed to you of, I guess, the duality of both in education and the ability to play play soccer and in a good facilities and all that. What appealed to you to go that path as opposed to, I guess, what is the more traditional path of not going through education and, you know, slugging it out in in leagues over in Europe? Yeah, I think, you know, the harsh reality is women's careers are very short lived and, you know, eventually you're going to have to have something to fall back on and like, God forbid, anything happens injury wise or anything, like you never know what's going to happen. So having sort of that comfort blanket of my education, if something does go wrong with my with my football and also I just had a passion with my education, like I've always loved learning and it's just something that I'm glad that I did. Do you feel that you are a better soccer player for the education part? You know, we talk so much about the the 90 minutes playing, but there's another 22 and a half hours of the day and the experiences that you have had, the skills that you have acquired, Do you feel that that has helped actually make you better in terms of handling things both on and off the field? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think because at some point I was so stressed with like my university work, football was more of a release, so I felt myself enjoying it a lot more when I when I was at training and I was like, Right, this is like the 2 hours of my day that I know I'm going to absolutely love. And then I have to work even harder later mentally. So yeah, I kind of use it as my release. But I also think just being more disciplined, like I had my certain routine of like training and this is how I need to sort my schoolwork and like setting up times of the day to do that. So yeah, I think it did really help me as a person. All right, Counselor, you're pre-law, right? This is something that you want to do. Is there any specific focus that you want when it comes to law? I know it's early and you can change, but. But right now you're pre-law, right? Yeah. Honestly, I'm not quite sure. I always wanted to be a lawyer, but I don't know if that's the path that I want to take anymore. What? What? What do you want to do now? If I told you you can't kick the ball anymore, what would you do? Honestly, this is totally not related to law at all, but I'd love to be like a pundit, like a commentator. Bring it on. Bring it on. Okay. You and everybody else get in line. All right, You can listen. You would. You would be wonderful. So. Okay, well, let's let's test this out. Give me a hot take on something right now. For example, Do you think that let's okay, let's start. Well, we'll do some with the men's game or something. From the women's game. The men's the men's game. Do you think that Arteta is doing a good job with Arsenal? You know, I do. I think from being obviously Pep's assistant. I think he has, you know, took a big leap to become in, you know, Arsenal's a massive football club, not just in England but in the whole of Europe. And I think that's a very, very tough job because I think the stigma around Arsenal is, you know, they've always historically been winning titles like especially the Cup. So, yeah, I think I think he has done a good job. I think last season they did bottle it a little bit in my opinion, but I think that's a good learning curve and they’ve learned from that. So there we go. There's my headline right there. There, there it is. Eleanor Dale says they bottled it last season. All right. There you go. Because that's all that any of us can remember. All right. Now from the women's game, what was the if you can put your finger on it? The problem with the U.S. Women's National team this summer in the World Cup, what led to their failure? I think Carli Lloyd nailed it on the head when she was just saying how she used to be in the U.S. National Team and how they don't sort of seem to have that that high standard for themselves anymore. I think potentially they could have got a little bit complacent because, I mean, historically, everyone has been trying to catch up to the U.S. and I think now this World Cup has shown, yes, like the world has really caught up to the U.S. and now I think for them to bounce back, they really need to show how they can take the next step. Like they're still like in my opinion, they're still one of the best football teams in the world. But how are they going to be, you know, where they were before, where no one could even touch them? Welcome to television, because the headlines is, is that Eleanor Dale says the U.S. Women's National Team is soft, soft like like cheese, soft boom. There we go. Well, listen, I wish you all the luck going forward in your career on the field and off the field, whatever it is, whether it's pre-law, or whether you come take my job or Carli Lloyd’s job or anybody else out there. I wish you luck with that. Congratulations again on your nomination for the MAC Hermann Trophy and have a wonderful time tonight. It was great to meet you. Thank you. Good to meet you. All right. Welcome. Charlie Sharp out of Western Michigan senior forward, Brighton, Michigan's own Charlie Sharp. You are sitting here with another Michigander. So this is this is this warms the cockles of my red headed American Michigan heart. That two, six foot somethings, soccer players are sitting down talking soccer. So first off, congratulations on being nominated for for this award and all of the success that you have had on the field. Take me back not too long because you're not that old, but take me back. What first attracted you to the game of soccer growing up over there in Brighton, Michigan? Either a player or a game or something, that that happened because I’m always fascinated as to how the game comes to people. Yeah, of course. By the way, thank you. This is an awesome experience. I first started getting into soccer. I would say because my older sisters played soccer. They growing up, we were a pretty athletic family. Everybody kind of found their sports that they like to do and soccer was just one of them that came naturally to all of us. Do you remember the first, I don't know, soccer game you saw or was it a World Cup that you watched or was that part of your your your your palate, I guess? No, I didn't watch much soccer growing up. Not until I got into high school, really started watching the Premier League then. Liverpool is my favorite team. So going off of a certain moment where soccer really caught my eye or something like that, I don't really have one of those, but I fell in love with the game at a young age and I'm happy to still be playing to this day. Now you're of the age and of the generation that has, and it's something just we keep going back to. And all the different people that I've talked to over here is the pathways and the unique pathways that we have. You're part of a generation that even from a high school perspective, you did you play high school soccer? I did, yeah, you did. So actually, not everybody did play high school soccer because at times they've had to choose and either they have gone one way or the other or sometimes they haven't even been allowed to actually play high school soccer. Did you enjoy your high school soccer experience? I loved it. I absolutely loved it. I got to play with my best friends. I actually also played basketball in high school up until my junior year as well. And then I had to pick soccer at that point. But I love playing high school soccer with my friends. I had a great relationship with my coach. He also went to Western Michigan and I think that's a great reason why I chose Western Michigan. Yeah, it's it's unfortunate. It's sad that there is a whole generation that is, I guess, being denied that experience that you talked about. And, you know, yes, there's the winning and yeah, there's a development in the kicking of the ball. But your point, the socialization and the interaction, the experiences that you have that are unique to high school sports or in this case, high school soccer, as opposed and this isn't a knock against club soccer and elite soccer and, you know, higher level of coaching and facilities and all that kind of stuff. But we're kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to high school soccer. All right. So you play you play high school soccer. You're obviously getting some attention. Was it your intention all along to stay in Michigan and you mentioned your high school high school coach, that it was an affiliation and a connection there or or was it even something that you thought you wanted to do when it came to playing college soccer? Yeah, I knew I wanted to play college soccer right around my junior year of high school. I didn't get much interest, so I had one offer and that was Western Michigan and I was a walk on. So it's been it's been a crazy last four or five years there at Western Michigan University. And I'm just so thankful they gave me the opportunity to play there. Why do you think people didn't recognize you? I mean, this this rings true for me even way back before you were born and stuff like that. And I thought things had changed to the extent that, you know, back when I was coming out, there was no YouTube, there wasn't anything like that. So just from a technical perspective, you couldn't see people and you couldn't get the information. We can certainly get the information right now. Why do you think that you weren't looked at as a viable option when it comes to more colleges out there? Well, I think that's a good question. I was also wondering the same thing when I was in high school, But I just think that when it comes to opportunities like that, sometimes people don't really bat an eye to some people. And that's not a knock against any team out there. But Western Michigan was the one team that did bat me an eye. And coach Wiseman and the coaching staff there over in Kalamazoo gave me an opportunity and I'm forever thankful for that opportunity. And yeah, it's it's been a great choice for me and I love my time over at Western Michigan. How has it changed you as a player? Because obviously there's a higher level, higher competition, competition within the team that maybe you don't experience in high school or growing up in in the high school years. So How have you changed as a player over those four years going from that walk on that? Like you said, people started to bat an eye and started to full on stare at you, obviously. How have you changed as a player? I just think growing up I was a late bloomer, so I didn't really hit my growth spurt until about junior year of high school. I went from about five nine to about six three in about six or seven months there. So that was a big jump for me and I had to grow into my body a little bit more. Jumping into the college game, change of speed, much better players, you know, that's what happens when you jump into any new atmosphere. You're not going to be used to it. So I think developing when you first get there, get used to the speed of play, get to know the coaching staff, make some good friends on the team along the way. That certainly helps. And the more you can build those relationships with with your good friends on the college team, I think you're going to play better as well. Did you say you were five, nine and went to six, three in seven months, something like that? Yeah, it was a big growth spurt for me. Yeah. Were you just like, changing overnight and, like, hurting overnight? Did it, did it affect you? Obviously, physically you grew. But yes, it was a problem. It was it was a big growth spurt for sure. Wow Like, well, you look you look fine now, I would want you. I would want you on my team. Okay, let's see here future. Let's look into the crystal ball here. What is the what is the future for Charlie Sharp here on the soccer field and maybe off the soccer field, too? Yeah. So right now the plan is to head up to Toronto in about a week or so and head to pre-season with them and see what I can do. And then if I told you that soccer is over, you can't do anything with regards to soccer, what would you do in life? I would like to stay home close to family. I'm I'm a big family guy. I have three siblings. I love my parents very dearly. So anything that I could do around home, I think I would love doing you. I met your your parents last night and they love you and they must be incredibly proud of you. Everything that you have done in soccer and and beyond. All right. Most important question, what ends up happening this season with the Lions? I knew you were going to bring this up because you're a Michigan man, but are, you know, I think a Super Bowl or bust for them? Look at you from your lips, my friend. From your lips. It would be it would be awesome. My wife and I are just we're trying not to jinx it. And this is rarefied air, as you know right now when it comes to the lions. But I will I will take it. And it's offsetting the horrible pistons and I guess the okay to better Red Wings out there. So we'll see what the Tigers do do going forward. Thank you so much for coming on the show. But and also congratulations again on on being nominated. I wish you all the luck. Have a wonderful time tonight at the at the party and at the at the banquet. And good luck up there in Toronto going forward. Awesome. I appreciate it. This was a lot of fun. Thank you. Awesome. Go, Michigan. Go. Blue Garrison Tubbs Wake Forest, 21 years old, senior defender from Brunswick, Georgia. Welcome to the State of the Union podcast. I saw you up with your family up at the in the in the dining room. So you got a bunch of people in here for this incredible honor. Congratulations on your nomination for the MAC Hermann Award here. Your your pathway is incredibly interesting and I think it actually says a lot about where American soccer is. And we've we've talked a about the pathways that exists and like I'm much, much older than you but way back in the 1900s the one and only pathway really to getting better and getting more opportunities was the college pathway that has changed dramatically over the years. And yet you have almost mixed the best of both worlds. Coming up in the Atlanta United Development system, playing for Atlanta United II back in 2019 in the USL Championship and being a homegrown player for Atlanta United. Before we get to where you're going forward, when you were growing up, what was your vision, I guess, of the pathway that you were going to take or even did you have one? I don't think I really had a certain pathway. I just knew I always wanted to go pro. I'm actually from Brunswick, Georgia, which is about an hour north of Jacksonville. So playing through that academy, I got the opportunity to go to Atlanta United. So that was a no brainer for me and my family to move up there just for that opportunity to get seen by more coaches and scouts and that sort of thing. So I played for the Academy for two years just to see what happens. And, you know, I got towards the end of my academy career and, you know, Atlanta said that I needed a little bit more development from their side. So to go to the college route and, you know, like I said earlier, I didn't know how I was going to get there. I just knew I wanted to get there. So academics has always been very important for me and my family. Once I decided that I was going to school, I knew that I wanted to go to a good academic institution and get the best degree that I could and and, you know, strive for greatness on both sides, academically and athletically. Was it hard was it hard to pick the college pathway in this day and age? I know that Atlanta kind of said, hey, we this is where we recommend you going. But, you know, you had a lot of other people going different ways. And I this was a lot of pressure and even peer pressure out there to say, hey, you got to bypass it. Are you going to you're going to going to lose those four years or how many years you are? Was it hard to to pick that? It was a little bit difficult. I know you're seeing younger players nowadays signing earlier and earlier in their careers, so I definitely felt a little bit of pressure in that sense. Did you think you were going to get left behind? Yeah, yeah, that's that's always a worry. But, you know, I took it with the mentality that I'm going to go there and, you know, do my best job that I can every single day. I think I picked an institution that has a great coaching staff and I had complete trust in them to get me to where I wanted to go. So I was fully confident in that sense. Do you regret for a second in terms of the soccer or the education? Not for a second. Or even the experience, I guess, which is even even more. Not for a second. Do you think that you would be the soccer player you are now had you not taken this pathway? I can't say I would. I can't say I would be. I've I've learned so much from coach Bobby Muuss and the rest of the staff there, not only from on the field, but off the field as well. They've taught me a lot of life lessons that I'm sure I'm going to be able to utilize throughout the rest of my life. So, you know, I think back with my dad all the time, you know, what would have happened with my career if I would have signed before I went to college? I mean, who knows where I would have been right now. Give me some players that you looked looked up to or you compare yourself with or somebody out there listening or watching. Give me a comp for you. A big one for me is George Campbell. He was he's an older, a year older than me. He was with the Atlanta United Academy when I first came. Same sort of build as me center back taller a little bit on the lanky side as me like me as well. And, you know, we became best friends. We went to the same high school and clicked right off the bat. He sort of showed me the way of of, you know, how to bring out the best of my abilities and kind of welcome me into the the Atlanta atmosphere. I guess. And we keep in contact all the time. Now he's a great friend of mine and he's doing well in Montreal right now. So I think I think he's the biggest one for me. If you had to describe to somebody because now I got a defender here, so now I'm going to go deep. Right. If you had to describe for somebody the the philosophy or I guess the mindset of a 2024 U.S. defender in the way that you think about what your job is and how you go about doing your job, what are some of the things that you would tell somebody if they didn't know anything about the position? I guess I think nowadays confidence on the ball is is very important. Playing out of the back, playing out of the back 100%. I used to be a forward pretty much my whole career before I got to Atlanta. And so when I got to Atlanta, they actually moved me back to center back. So that was my first time ever playing the position. So I think that's where I get a little bit of that confidence that I have on the ball. And I think in this day and age we're seeing, especially in the American game, more playing out of the back and building, which is very important. And also just the organizational and leadership aspect. I think I've always been a person that would lead from example, but as I switched to a center back, that that vocal leadership becomes way more important. So that's definitely something I had to work on and build in as I stepped into that leadership captain role at Wake Forest, that's something I had to continue to take to another level. If I wanted myself to be successful and the team to be successful. Look, a life is full of surprises and twists and turns, and a soccer career is full of surprises and twists and turns. So let's get into your situation right now. So for those who don't know, you are a homegrown for Atlanta. We just talked about you coming up in their system, which means that they protect you in that you don't go into the draft and ideally or theoretically, it is about developing and fostering talent that then is going to serve them going forward. And they put money and they put resources into the development so that they have somebody that they have cultivated from a young age into in this case it would be the Atlanta system, if you will. So you get all ready to go back to Atlanta, you know, and they're bringing to the mother ship and all that kind of stuff. And next thing I read, you're getting you're getting shipped off to D.C. United. That is cold, my friend. That is cold. So take me through how that all came about. Did did they did they call you? Did they tell you? And look, you know, you you make what they say. Lemonades out of lemon and all that kind of stuff. But this had to have come as a surprise to you, right? Yeah, it was 100% a surprise. You know, I'm getting a little bit of a taste of the business aspect of professional sports very early. But no, it was definitely a surprise. You know, I was it was draft day and I was expecting just to watch the draft with my family to support some of my my teammates and some of the other guys I know throughout college soccer. And I got a call from my agent early in the morning just to to tell me a little bit of a rumor that he heard about a potential trade. So I didn't I didn't know, I guess, what would happen or how it would turn out or if it if it would even happen in the first place. So we're actually sitting in the middle of the draft and I get a call from him again and he's like, look, you've been traded. And I was completely shocked because I didn't see it coming at all. And I got on the phone shortly after with DC’s GM, Ally Mackay, and he he welcomed me right in with open arms and he's been great and very the hospitality from him and the rest of the DC staff has been amazing so far. So, you know, I'm just excited to get up to DC now and get to work. You know, the the fans seem really great and what they, their vision for what they have for the future. I mean I'm excited to be a part of it. Well a couple of things. You know Atlanta's loss is DC's gain as far as I'm concerned. Let this let this fuel you and you're already, like you said, not only, you know, learning some of the lessons and experiencing some of the things that have nothing to do with necessarily kicking the ball and the business that you're in, but maybe it goes back to the path that you took and this pathway that now has become a pathway that is less traveled, making you the person that you are giving you, the lessons, the skills, and maybe even the maturity to deal with something like this better than had you gone a different way. So I wish you all of the luck in the world, both on and off the field up at DC United or wherever your path takes you going going forward. Good luck tonight in terms of the MAC Hermann Award, congratulations on all of your your success. Garrison Tubbs, Remember this name, my friend. Remember this name out of Wake Forest. And like you mentioned, Brunswick, Georgia, by way of it, Atlanta United. But now DC United. That's what I'm talking about. Thanks for coming on. Well, thank you for having me. Thank you. All right. Welcome. Brecken Mozingo from Brigham Young, Senior. Forward out of Sandy, Utah, 22 years old, college career that was at UCLA and then finished up at Brigham Young. And boy or boy on the field. Incredible stuff. 14 goals, 15 assists for the the Cougars instrumental in BYU returning to the NCAA College Cup. Welcome to the State of the Union. I'm always interested when I talk to well, pretty much everybody's younger nowadays when I talk to them, but when I talk to younger soccer players where their attraction to the game came from, how it started. So take me back not that many years because you're still very, very young, but take me back a few years. How did soccer come on your radar as a as a young girl? Oh, shoot. I don't even know. I know that I was about four or five years old when I probably started playing. Just I feel like that's a pretty common story, though, for a lot of soccer players. But yeah, I'm not sure. I think my parents just started laying out sports and like, okay, let's start with this sport and then play this one and see what she likes type of thing. But soccer was kind of the first thing that they started with, and I just started playing and loved it. Do you remember your first World Cup that you watched? Either men's or women's? I honestly don't. I know I've been a part of watching and just participating. And what about players, anybody that you looked up to growing up? Messi. Messi. Oh, yeah. What about that? I mean, on the U.S. team. Yeah, definitely. Alex Morgan That's always a traditional one. Just because I was a forward and my number was 13, she was just like, okay, she is my favorite player. Well, you know what? Given Alex Morgan's recent form, there's an opportunity there going forward. So who knows? Maybe you or others can go and take take that place going forward. She's an incredible legend. So you're you're you're well within your rights to to idolize her. And she's incredible with what she's done. Okay. So take me through the the pathway to college, because we were talking earlier about how the landscape has kind of changed over the years and college soccer. And we're even seeing now from the women's side where college soccer players are bypassing. Did you look at going to play college soccer? As I mentioned, you started at UCLA and then moved on to Brigham Young. Did you look at it as a means to a potential professional career or just something that you did along the lines and alongside of your education? Kind of both. I wanted to live in the present and just be very focused and centered on what I was obviously doing within each day and like focusing on each day kind of very progressively takes you through the year. It goes by so fast when you look at it day by day. But I know that I was especially towards the end of college, I was like, I have two more seasons left to kind of showcase what kind of player I am. If that's the next step that I want to do. And I think a lot of it came down to the senior season and that kind of just had momentum behind it with like my decision and just wanting to play in the NWSL or just the professional level. And I then viewed it as like a jump pad or a launch pad. What was the difference between your experience, I guess, on and off the field at UCLA I live in Los Angeles. Obviously it's very different than Utah and as is California, but what did you find the differences were and then some of your reasons for making that change? Because it seems to have made all the difference, not just in terms of your soccer play, but as you've explained before, in just your outlook in life. Oh, yeah. I mean, UCLA was fantastic, it was great, great program, great coaching staff, great girls. Their environment was fantastic. Just everywhere from the weight room to, you know, your dorm room, the classes, even just Westwood in general on the beach. So like, not too shabby, right? Oh, awesome. Yeah, but I think I just was missing home, was missing my community and wanting to, like, almost play with that kind of pride of like, okay, I'm playing like for these people type of thing and playing for like the little girls and all that stuff playing for myself. And I just had to make that transition back to my back yard, you know, look into your crystal ball here in the future. What what do you envision yourself both on the soccer field and off the soccer field? Shoot, on the field. I hopefully want to obviously continue playing. I want to be just helping whatever team I'm on progress and just win or whatever it takes to, you know, be just an amazing team. And that's kind of what I want to do with soccer. And then off the field, I just want to be again there for my brothers. I have three little brothers and they're some of my best friends, even though they're a little bit younger than me. But yeah, I would love to do that. And I just got my where I'm close to getting my business degree and I'm not sure exactly what want with that, but I kind of just want to become like a soccer trainer and also just give back to the community off the field. Like, I don't know, it's like a home away from home in terms of what I'm doing on the field and off the field. But the business part of it, would you want that to be something going forward off the field and and would you want it associated with sports or with soccer? I think so. I think in like somehow incorporating both of my worlds together, I'm thinking that might be a good niche, but I don't really know. Awesome. Awesome. Well, look, I don't know where and how long your soccer career is going to take you, but I wish you all of the luck on the field in terms of what you are doing. I hope that you kick the ball in the right direction and everything goes well and then off the field, even more importantly, because, well, while a career can be an important part of somebody's life, it's also a very small portion of somebody's life. And there's a whole life to live after that. And seems like you've got a really good head on your shoulders there and you got at least some ideas of what you want to do, and I think you'll be successful going forward. So good luck tonight at the event for the MAC Hermann Trophy Award. Congratulations on being nominated for this prestigious award and good luck going forward. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. As I live and breathe the great Bill McDermott, Mr. Soccer. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Oh Bill, how are you doing? I'm good, man. I am good. I'm having a blast. You know how long how long it's been? It's been since some time days. It's been some time since the Rev days. Yeah, right. Since Padova days. Oh, my God. It's amazing. It's amazing. All right, listen, the voice of American soccer, as far as I'm concerned, since like, like back in the seventies, college, indoor MLS Olympics, World Cup. And also a proud St. Louisan. Right, Right. I got it right. Nailed it. Precisely Nailed right. Nailed it. How are you, my friend? How are things going? Thanks for coming back. Oh, I love it. I love it. It's so much fun. Coming back to the Missouri Athletic Club. You came last year too. Yeah. It means a lot when former winners of this award have come back to give back. I don't know what Where you grew up there was a priest CYC Catholic Youth Council who always preached to us and we thought, Oh my God, if we don't do this, it's sacrilegious. When you get finished with the sport, remember to give back. Give back. That was ingrained from an early age. That was ingrained from an extremely early age. He also told us he wanted to grow. He wanted us to grow up playing in the shadows of the schoolyard. Oh my God. So we did that for sure because we were in a Catholic Youth Council parish and. That's how a goodly portion of it started here in Saint Louis through the CYC. We were talking to Mike Sorber and he said the exact same thing because, you know, we're always trying to figure out how this came to be and what, what what events, what what, what ultimately happened to have Saint Louis be where, you know, as you know, having worked in soccer at times it's and I can say this a redheaded stepchild right but not any question but not here never. We adopted the world's game. First game was here on Declaration Day, Decoration Day, excuse me, which turned out to be Memorial Day. That was in 1875 before. You say anything? No, I did not do the game. But that's where it all started now. It started with the various club teams Stix Baer & Fuller, Corrente Cleaners, Ben Miller Hat Companies, all of whom were prominent companies in Saint Louis, and a goodly portion of the players were likewise employees of those respective companies. So consequently they played for the team. And then in 1920, The Ben Miller Hat Company slogan of which was Ben Miller wants your head, that was in their ads, they won a national championship, the first National Challenge Cup. Consequently, that gave Saint Louis a lot of exposure fast forward to the late fifties when intercollegiate soccer began at Saint Louis University, and they started to win on a regular basis, but was highly unusual, tremendously unusual about the ten championships that Saint Louis U won from 59 to 73 is the fact that let me think now 95 to 98% of the players were all born and raised within 30 minutes of Saint Louis University. That's unheard of. Wow. Yeah. All right. So we're trying to, you know, figure out the secret sauce. And I think sometimes in soccer, as you know, we like to kick ourselves for what we haven't done. And sometimes it's good to kind of pat ourselves with how far we've come. Yes, you are someone that has perspective. All right. Yeah. Way of saying you've been around for a while. All right. But it does give you perspective and a maturity and an understanding and an ability to see things. And I think a much clearer way when you look at what the soccer landscape is now. Let's broaden it out. Even past Saint Louis right now. Could you have ever, ever envisioned we would be where we are in 2024? Absolutely never like, wow, why wouldn't that be one of that? Because didn't think that anyone was going to be diligent enough to start the concept of a soccer specific stadium. Now, I know you've talked about that before and you said, no, they're not literally soccer specific because other things go on there. Yes, they do, and we know that. But at least like the primary tenant is a soccer precisely. Consequently, we are not playing at Giant Stadium, the Rose Bowl Mile High Stadium. Now, the soccer specific stadium. I think that, is one of one of the key factors that has given the sport a great deal more exposure. Likewise, getting exposure is the women's national team who win World Cups on a regular basis. Forget last year. There have been nine World Cups, they've won four. I think that's a fairly good domination. Yes. And the men's World Cup team in particular and I say this not because you're sitting next to me, but the most important seminal event in the history of soccer in our country. Without any question. I say this with no hesitancy. As a matter of fact, I like to say this is the 94 World Cup and people like you and John and Eric, Mike, Bora himself, what he did speak Sigi Teemo a little bit when Bora allowed them to speak and you could speak there, not because they didn't, he didn't allow them too often, but that was an event of astounding proportion and not just the first game on June 17th, 1994 at Soldier Field when Germany played Bolivia. But game number four at Giants Stadium when Ireland played Italy, one half of the one side of the stadium is Ireland, the other is Italy. And people in the United States who didn't know me or you from Franz Beckenbauer. But that's fine. They came because Americans are big event people and they finally grasped partly started to grasp the concept of this is not a city against a city. It's a country against a country. And I think that had so much to do with the growth of the sport itself. Also, something had to do with the 1966 World Cup in England. So World Cups in two English speaking countries laid dawn to the NASL, the North American Soccer League and MLS after the 1994 World Cup. So the your barometer, your barometer as a soccer playing city, if you will, likewise, as a soccer playing nation, is what you can accomplish in the 94 World Cup, 94, 2002, and perhaps it's perhaps something in 2026. Yeah, let's talk. Let's hope so. It's too early to say now, but when you have players like well, just case in point, Weston McKennie, Christian Pulisic, who were not only playing on prominent teams around the world, but in the first Elevens for these respective teams and in 26, they're coming back to a vastly changed and improved landscape when it comes to that soccer landscape. Totally different. It's a Don Garber says this all the time and I do I've had my arguments with Don about various everybody has all right but when he says soccer is a sport for a changing America, he is 100% right on when it comes. Let's bring it back now to locally because with St Louis City FC and what they have done, you know, I've been to St Louis over the years. I've seen what St Louis is as a city. I'm not talking about a soccer city, but it is as a city and you know, the, the urban situation and all that kind of stuff. And now seeing it from outside and seeing what this team has done. The stadium, as you mentioned, a soccer specific stadium, bringing people back down into the city. It has to make you has to make you proud. And I'll be honest, too, I didn't predict the success on the field, but they hit it out of the park. Lex, no one did. No one. No one. If they told you, Oh, I knew they were going to win their first five games, it's impossible they're ever going to win 17 games. 11 of which were at home the first game early in March, March 4th. Other than a World Cup game, I've never seen an environment like the game. On March 4th, the first home game on a soccer ground in the United States, and that includes the inaugural game in 1996 at Spartan Stadium. How did it manifest? What was the what was the? The uniqueness. People everywhere, People absolutely everywhere. And already attired in Saint Louis City pink slash rhodamine slash red, whatever color you want to term it. But absolutely everywhere, restaurants, hotels, the main street itself, market street. But what has revolutionized, I think, part of the way soccer is accepted in our country has something to do with the fact that Saint Louis did this in all of this in one centralized downtown location. You know as well as I do that goodly number of the teams, DC United in their halcyon area never had a venue close to DC United very few some teams do now. Some teams, of course, do, but not as much as everything in one downtown location. And if there's any city that can lay their pride and their legacy of why this happened, when we watch these games, you're naive if you don't think that you're standing on the shoulders of other people who made this sport possible in the United States. And I've said this before, when the people in Saint Louis adopted the world's game, brought it here to themselves and it all started again because of the CYC growing from that to intercollegiate to select to academy to MLS next so that soccer is no longer a cause in the United States. It's big business. Well, let's finish it up there looking forward. We've looked back, we've looked here. Let's look forward into our little crystal ball here. What does American soccer become? Because we know that it is unique and it is different. It's always going to be, I guess, uniquely American, given our history and given the realities on and off the playing field here. So what does it what does it become in that crystal ball of yours? It becomes a legitimate a legitimate alternative to that almighty sports dollar. And now a goodly portion of the fans who are coming are not terribly familiar with the sport in our country. They might think that soccer began in the United States in 1996 with MLS, whereas in actuality obviously began decades earlier. But what we're looking for, and what I'm always looking for, is how the sport can improve and how the American player can improve, hopefully, and ideally on the World Cup stage, because I've just mentioned this a moment ago, you're judged as a soccer playing nation, whether we like it or not, as to what you do in the World Cup against other countries, not other cities. Last question. I lied. There is the last question here. You mentioned the soccer playing nation and we are a soccer playing nation with, as you mentioned, also a history, whether people believe it or want to do the work or not to give me the best part about American soccer and the worst part about American soccer. The best part of American soccer is, I think that it's gaining radical new numbers of exposure from fans who don't have a real feel for it, who may be indoctrinated into it, are getting indoctrinated because of their children. That doesn't make a difference. That's a good formula. You're getting people who are soccer fans. The worst part of it, six teams in Major League soccer still have artificial surface. So you need you need grass. You want grass. Positively. I love it. I love it. And Lex, with the 2026 World Cup of all of the ten, 11, 12 venues, we have to put down grass on nine or ten of them. It's going to cost money. And don't forget they can do it and they can't do it because what you did again, I'm going to say this, whether you're sitting here or not, whether John sitting here where Eric's sitting doesn't make any difference. 68,991. Still to date, dating back to 1930, the biggest average attendance for a World Cup in the history of the event was in the United States. Whereas everybody said, how can you possibly award a World Cup to the United States. They don’t even have a league. They have no pedigree in the World Cup. Well, if you look at 1950, they do. No, we're not looking at 1950. Yes, we do. And we hold that. We hold that in great esteem. Well, because my college soccer coach played for the team. But we're well beyond that now. Well, well beyond that now where soccer is a front page sport. Awesome. Well, listen, as the saying goes, it takes a village. You are a huge part of the American soccer village and thank you for everything that you have done and continue to do for this for this beautiful game. Likewise. Likewise, with the national exposure that you're doing with State of the Union. Awesome. Thank you, sir. I hope I gave you a good State of the Union. Wonderful. It's perfect. It was perfect, my friend. All right. Lex. Oh, I'm excited. I am excited. Mike Sorber is joining us, the great Mike Sorber a wonderful friend, colleague and you know ex teammate, I guess it would be when it comes to the US Men's National Team. Mike Sorber, 52 years old, proud, what do you call them? Saint Louisan, Saint Louisan. Saint Louisan. Yeah, he's a proud Saint Louisan, Saint Louis Billiken, US Men's National Team, Pumas, KC, Metro Stars, Chicago. The list goes on and on and on. And then from a coaching perspective, also with the Billikens there, the United States Men's National Team, Montreal, LA FC, Toronto FC. The list goes on and on and on. He has been around as for as long as I can remember. Hello, buddy. How are you? Good Lex. Great to see you, man. What you're doing, I don't know what lotion you're using or anything, but you have not changed a bit in the last 30 years. It's just incredible. So whatever you're doing, the hydration or whatever it is, just keep doing it. I'm going to keep doing it. Sounds good. You look great. Listen, we are coming to to everybody here in the State of Union from Saint Louis. You are a proud native son. We know that this this this area and this city have an incredible history. What is it? Because I'm gonna read off some people here and not just you, but then it goes. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. Chris Klein and Pat Noonan and Brad Davis and Steve Ralston, Taylor Twellman, Tim Ream, Steve Trittschuh, Will Bruin, Josh Sargent, Al Trost, Ty Keough, Becky Sauerbrunn, Lori Chalupny. I mean, the list goes on and on. Is there something in the water here? What is it? There is great history and great tradition, so it goes back even farther than that. It goes back to, you know, some immigrants coming over from Italy, from Germany, from Ireland, you name it, and they love soccer. So they brought it here to Saint Louis. And the two biggest sports were soccer and baseball. And so, yeah, there were some good players, there were some good coaches that brought ideas. And then you also had the Catholic parishes, and so you had the CYC and you had every kid in his parish playing soccer and there was a parish on every corner. So really the game was brought to the children and they grew up with it. And then they started a league. I mean, we're going back to early 1900s. And so then you get to 1950 and you have four or five guys on that World Cup team. And so a lot of good information just gets passed along. And the competition was pretty fierce and it was sort of organic and it developed itself. But by the time you're growing up, you know, in the seventies and eighties and stuff like that, you're looking at soccer as any other sport, right? It's not this, you know, this this foreign sport or this strange sport that just kind of drops in on you, right? In terms of growing up, St Louis, no question. It was a built in rivalry here that you had the way the city is set up, the north versus the south. And so there was great pride in being from the north and great pride in being from the South and you never wanted to lose. So like I said, the game really developed the players. There was a lot of talent. Everybody played every day in the schoolyard, in the gym, and then there were little teams that that sprung up and you started to get club soccer, but there were also leagues. And yeah, you just there were different sponsors and you were proud to play for your team, for your parish, and you didn't want to lose. So it should be no surprise then that Saint Louis City FC has kind of gone great guns, except, you know, look, I was here a year ago and, you know, I was I was looking and trying to think as to what it would be and look on the field. They hit it out of the park. It's been incredible. And I think they would even admit gone better than they would have ever imagined. But the way that this team has been embraced and again, from the outside looking in the incredible stadium downtown, but the atmosphere that they have created there, I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise given the history that it has when it comes to soccer here. No, you can go back to indoor soccer. Even before that. And the NASL, you had the Saint Louis Stars. It was supported in a good way, but still, soccer across the nation was not what it is today. But then you had the NISL and the St Louis Steamers started in 1979 and nobody was really sure how that was going to go. And they played in the old Checker Dome where the Saint Louis Blues played and the opening game. They had to delay it about 30 to 40 minutes because they had not pre-sold the tickets and everybody showed up at the front door at the same time. So to get everybody in, they had to delay the game and they basically got 18,000 people and they had that for most of the year. They were out drawing the blues. So we knew that there was a soccer base here and that the people would be excited about it. What we needed was an ownership group to take charge, which was established and they got the stadium built, they got the club Saint Louis City, you know, the Taylor family from Enterprise and Jim Cavanaugh with World Wide Technology. And yeah, it was the pieces came together and once they finally had a team and they opened the doors and, it was sold out. Yeah. You finally got to see the excitement in the city and what everybody thought it could be. You're going to be honored tonight on stage here at the Missouri Athletic Club for the MAC Hermann Trophy, because they're bringing in people. And like we said, you're a legend here when it comes to Saint Louis. But I want to pick your brain a little bit about some of the stuff that I've been talking about with, the players and the coaches here. From a collegiate perspective. Obviously, you played in college, but as your coaching career has progressed, you've seen from the inside and I guess from the outside what's that pathway that you and I took and our generation took that was so traditional and was basically the only pathway to get better. How as that has started to dry up, how do you in your capacity at times as a coach in Major League Soccer, how have you come to look and appreciate or not appreciate what collegiate soccer is in 2024? And I guess going forward? Well, it's it's an important piece still. Now we can debate the level of kids coming out of the academies, which is a is a great tool or a great resource for the kids to develop. No doubt that's how it's done around the world. But then what college provides is a opportunity maybe for the late bloomer that, you know, maybe he if he signs a homegrown contract, how much is he going to play? And if you don't play, how much are you going to develop going away to college? You know, presents other opportunities, living on your own and maturing as an individual and a player, socialization, which then becomes important and you still need to get drafted. So there's just different avenues. I don't think it's a one size fits all and clearly there are still kids or guys and girls coming out and going pro and they are important players on their team. Yeah, I'm not sure you can become Messi going 23 years old, coming out of college. I think there's an earlier step that needs to take place. But you definitely key can be an important role player and go on and have a really good career. You and I ran around on that field back in 1994 and it changed everything for us and changed everything for for soccer. But it also kind of is the starting point for a lot of the stuff that we talk about here. I'm interested in your thoughts when it comes to the professional game and what in particular MLS is and isn't going forward. It's going to be 30 teams. It's amazing, almost 30 years of existence, the most successful professional soccer league in North American history. But it certainly has its it's you know problems and its detractors and its criticisms and some of them valid and fair when it goes forward. How have you seen it mature and what are some of the things that you think MLS as a league and maybe individually as teams need to do in order to take it to that next level? Because look, it's coming, it's coming fast. 2026 is back upon us, the men's World Cup coming back after all these years. Yeah. I mean, I think we can get ahead of ourselves when we want to discuss winning a World Cup. And it's fair to have the discussion. But look, everything takes time. And this league has taken time. It had to get off the ground to get started. It had to establish itself. It has done that. It will continue to be criticized for different reasons. Salary cap, too many teams promote, you name it, promotion, relegation. Everything is valid to. Put on the table and discuss. I don't think there's just one answer. Luckily we have a league. Look what it has done to elevate the sport in this country. Look what it's done infrastructure wise with the academies, with training facilities, with soccer specific stadiums, because we played in football stadiums well, and now there are some football stadiums that are being filled in Atlanta and Seattle and Charlotte. So it's it's on a good path for sure. Everybody wants it to happen faster. Everybody wants it to become the best league in the world. And everybody wants the USA to win a World Cup. I think we're all on board with that. How exactly that's going to happen? You're going to find a lot of different opinions on that one. So are we winning a World Cup? That's what I hear Mike Sorber saying. Yeah, we have an opportunity. Well, listen, let me let me tell the people a little bit about Mike Sorber from back in the day that I remember and that I acknowledge and that I that I love in this team that people remember from the 1994 World Cup. A lot of hair, a lot of personality, a lot of character, a lot of flamboyance, stuff like that. Our coach, Bora Milutinović, understood that the team was about all of these different personalities coming together, and they were all different and on the field and off the field. Mike Sorber and I will say this to you, was one of the most integral and important components of, the success of that team. And while it wasn't always about Flash, it was someone doing the job that he was assigned. Also the job that Bora recognized he was very, very good at. And it wasn't necessarily sexy, it wasn't necessarily flashy, but it was essential and integral to any type of success that we had. So My friend, if I haven't said it over the years, thank you for doing all of that work that, like I said, oftentimes goes unnoticed. And anybody else who is out there that has played game or that has coached the game, you will know exactly what I am talking about of those types of players that you need in order to function as any good team. Well, I appreciate that, Lex. And yes, look, I still will argue that we had one of the best teams that the national team program has produced, and it's because of the different pieces, personalities, egos, everything that you named, we had real quality. And yeah, again, people are going to criticize that and they're going to say, well, what about 2002 in 2010 and in the current group? And yeah, you can't really compare the different generations. But for that group, that period of time I'll, I'll put that group up against anybody. It was a it was a special group and yes, I I'm grateful to Bora which I think you are as well because he had a good idea of what he wanted. He was able to manage all the different personalities, but he saw quality and in in this in football, in soccer and he was able to put the right pieces together. And we went out there and performed the great Mike Sorber joining the State of the Union, a proud St Louisan, St. Louisan, St. Louisan my friend. Great to see you. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Joining me now, Bradley Carnell, the head coach of Saint Louis City SC. All right. So first off, congratulations are in order. A year ago, I was here in Saint Louis, right to the day almost. And I publicly in front of all those people, I said, listen, if this Saint Louis MLS team, by the end of the season is even remotely close to sniffing a playoff spot, then you should consider it a success. Well, you took that and you said, not so fast, my friend. Blew by it blew by not just my expectations, but a lot of people's expectations. So So now the question is, what is it? What is the secret sauce? If you can tell me how. I mean, you can't have envisioned this when you first put this together. This is the ideal, right? Yeah, sure. I mean, I think as you always look back and reflect and you think we had a plan, we set the plan in motion and the belief and the buy in from the players from day one, You know, everybody came in with some agenda. Everybody came in with some motive to perform, you know, prove people wrong. And the more we tried to ride on that wave, the more it just grew and brought us together even more that we connected. We did some good things in pre-season. You know, teambuilding for us and camaraderie was excellent. You know, I must say, throughout the season. And that's what kind of carried us and propelled us to to new levels, you know, And then we get the momentum of winning the first game, coming back from behind and just the energy of that moment and the hard work in pre-season and having a a fundamental base, a foundation. And we felt that, you know, the two or three months, four months when the guys joined us previously, you know, some of the some of the foreign guys we we got next pro guys elevated to the first team status and we thought we used every mechanism possible to gain some sort of value or strength. And I think everyone, you know, did their job perfectly. You mentioned a base and one of that one of the parts of that base is the incredible stadium. And when I got a tour of it last year, the nominees for the MAC Hermann Award had a tour today, and every single one of them has come in and said, Oh, my God, that is that is incredible. And from the outside watching it, it looked like the proverbial 12th man in terms of the help and the environment that was created there. I just talked to Bill McDermott. He said it was unlike any at that first game. It was unlike anything he has seen. And let's be honest, that guy has seen a lot of soccer over the years. So how important has that been? Listen, that was not expected, right? We did not know that will come. We knew history and the heritage and that's what we sold with our players. You know, the very first meeting I had, the arch, I had the 1950s USA team up on the board and we said, you know, there were so many St. Louisans on that team and we are here to continue the legacy, not to create one. You know, this is already been before us, right? We’re just here to continue the story and now we've played a part in that story of what St Louis history of the soccer is all about. So you know, when we now look forward to fans, I mean, I've never experienced anything like that. I mean that sort of borderlines European fan level experience and that's what it was. It was a game day experience that people speak about even to this day. I mean, the very first game against Charlotte, we it's something that we'll never forget. You know, those moments, the victories, the five and oh run, they're just everything. We set milestones and we achieved the history along these little journeys that we set ourselves, these targets. And all of a sudden we, we had Match day 34 and winning the Western Conference. So, yeah, MLS is on the verge of 30 teams and 30 years of existence right now. And you've seen some of that, you've seen some of some of that growth. When you when you think about what MLS can be, let's take it a little further out from just St Louis and the direction that it is heading. Obviously you have 2026 coming up and everything that's going on. What are some of the things that you believe MLS should be doing? You may be already doing it either individually or you think that should be done en masse with everybody there on or off the field going forward to make it an even better league than it already is? Yeah, it's an interesting question. I always think that, you know, taking small baby steps forward. Right. So whether it's the the game day experience, whether it's the fan culture, whether it's the the broadcasting, whether it's the, you know, publications, whether it's the media, whether it's the the quality of the soccer, whether it's the brand of the person coming in. And I seem to think every year the league just takes a step forward. Right. And, you know, I got you in 2017 and every single year there's been some success story in terms of elevation of the brand. And you know, Lutz always says, you know, well we want to tackle the top five sports leagues in in the world right so yeah we want to tackle getting to that well scratch the surface right here. There's the big five and then there's the MLS somewhere there and thereabouts. But can we break in and make it more competitive? And, you know, you look at, you know, high caliber names coming in at prime age levels to come in and play their their soccer here in the US, which is amazing. Right. You see a lot of people now signing records being broken, you know, budgets being broken just in terms of salaries and and roster, the budgets, everything is always increasing. The level of game is just picking up. You know, you were around for a couple of years before or a year before the actual team started playing. So you had the lay of the land and what St Louis can be a lot of a lot of talk when it comes to MLS, especially expansion teams, is that there now are templates, there are best practices. How much did you look at others, either others within MLS or even others from from outside? And how much did you say, You know what, we want to do this our our own way? Yeah, listen, I mean, when Lutz and I collaborated with this and, you know, got the game plan ready for, you know, the philosophy. What type of people do we want to bring in? What are the expertise? And, you know, how can we hit the ground running from day one and what mechanisms can we use within the league that give us the freedom, you know, to to build a pillar of success, to build a foundation? And, you know, the the start of the MLS next pro helped us, you know, it gave us a platform to to get players in early. Right. The June period, the 2022 June window where in Europe we could acquire players, bring in players. You know Joakim Nilsson, Roman Bürki, Eduard Löwen you know the overseas contingency we got those guys in early you know the worst thing is in January-February to worry about housing worry about schooling for your kids, worry about. So we always believed in the people aspect first, right? So we want players to be happy. We want their families to be happy. We want their families to be integrated and we use that mechanism wisely. And then there's the game model, right? So we've seen it, you know, January, February, you know, whether it's draft picks, whether it's new acquisitions, it takes time to to understand the model. Right. So that's where scouting, you know. Yeah. Recruiting, drafting it all became a long term plan for us within that six months. Right. So we look into the future and if you see we elevated. Yes. So many players from our next pro team. We we've got Miggy Perez you know starting in the MLS next pro we got him starts in the MLS. We got him a goal in the you know so we had a homegrown so yeah listen this this planning of the last year and a half two years has has we've grown as people and leaders for sure as Janet Jackson said. What have you done for me lately? Right. So last year was was last year. But you are also a young coach. You're learning, right? So if you look back and then look forward as to things that you're going to do, can you can you find a mistake you made? Yeah, I think we can always look at mistakes. Right? So I'm a very open coach, I'm very transparent coach, and that's how I like to lead, Right. And for sure I look at myself very critically and from what was a perfect season, we still found ways to find little poke holes. So when we did a debrief as a staff or, you know, we spoke players on exit meetings, we all came together and, you know, said that we could get better in certain to be Give me something. Come on, come on. Yeah. Just I mean, down the stretch, right? We've achieved so much. How could we tighten the screws while we've still, you know, we've, we've achieved, we've broke records. Right. So the first 17 games, you know, we, we had 29 points I believe, you know, the next 17 we got 27 points. So you would say yeah, listen, you know. Yeah. Pretty average, right. So 29, 27, 56 points. Perfect. Yeah. But we found that 17 second part of the season became a slog, you know, became a bit of whatever for whatever reason, you know, having that tag of being now the frontrunners pacesetters record breakers to carry that on our shoulders, can we now just be even more free? Because now we've achieved whatever no one was expecting and you know, now that's done and dusted. So we've all grown, we've all got more experience. We've all, you know, challenged ourselves. And, you know, I think we have to be more willing to to challenge each other more. You know, that's one of the things that I have a key takeaway is to be open to new challenges and, you know, not be so rigid in our lanes and be open flexible. So that's one of the things I want to be. Last question. I mean, we're here at the Missouri Athletic Club, 120 years of incredible history. And obviously a lot of it has to do with with soccer and collegiate soccer. You mentioned the draft. And as you know, from being around the the pathways and that's we've talked to everybody about pathways and the traditional ones that have kind of changed and some of them have even gone away. Do you, from your vantage point as a coach of an MLS team right now, see that collegiate soccer now and going forward has a value in terms of development and in firm and in terms of talent? Yeah, I think there's ebbs and flows and just like, you know, any cycle in terms of style of play over years, it's the pressing, it's the position that's expensive, it's the neck, it's the narrow. Right. So you have a look at the college game as well. Duncan McGuire You know, this year for Orlando, you know, got drafted and banged goals and kept a DP on the bench so you know it is possible. Can we now create moments and mechanisms for that to be more of a frequent cadence, you know, can we get more and more collegiate players progressing through and having breakout seasons. So, you know, and then we think we're in a good position because we favor, you know, players with certain profiles, youngsters specifically to put them through their paces. Right? So we believe in a system that's a collective buy in. We don't believe on any big stars and we believe in progressions and pathways for players. So, you know, we've we feel we love the collegiate system because we like, you know, drafting new players and, working with new prospects. So for us, we embrace these types of things and we're excited about our two draft signees. You know, Brendan McSorley and Hosei Kijima, so we're excited. They have interesting profiles and we hope to push them. Well, whatever it is you're doing, you're doing something right. So whatever that magic is, just keep sprinkling it and I wish you the best on and off the field. Bradley Carnell, head coach of St Louis, thank you so much for having me to your city yet again. And it is your your city and best of luck going forward. And then in the next season, hopefully it's not just once a year. I know exactly I got to get back for a game to get to experience what you're talking about. Yeah, but thanks again. Really appreciate being on the show. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in for another amazing episode of Missouri Athletic Club Connections. Stay connected with us through the events, calendar, MAC website and social media and we'll see you soon.